OneAll 6:44 Mon Sep 20
Soucek
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Not just because of the result today but Soucek does not seem the same player he was last season correct me if I’m wrong , seems to be a lot more defensive as usual
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
azel senior
6:13 Tue Sep 21
Re: Soucek
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I thought he played really well on Sunday.
Only player who didn't look up to scratch was Yarmolenko, who I would have subbed after five minutes.
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goose
4:31 Tue Sep 21
Re: Soucek
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To me he looks exactly the same player but just hasnt found the net yet. Teams are wise to him now.
His game is fairly unremarkable until he scores goals - he does the simple things well.
When he's scoring you think he's playing well, when he's not scoring his game doesn't stand out.
I'm sure he'll find the net soon.
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WHUDeano
4:27 Tue Sep 21
Re: Soucek
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It's a little worrying how tired the team looks already. Moyes understandably wants to spend money to improve the 11 rather than pad out the squad, we won't be in trouble this season but it could be a bit of an anti-climax given the possibilities.
I'm guessing we'll look to win the first 4 Europa League games and then play youths and reserves for the last two. I also imagine he'll play a very weak team tomorrow so that we can concentrate on the league and Europa.
I genuinely think we've got a great chance of going far in the Europa. Imagine winning a European trophy and qualifying for the Champions League at the same time? I'd happily prioritise the Europa over everything else. There's no way we'll get relegated with this team, so mid table and a serious attempt at the Europa League win would do me lovely.
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Nagel
1:07 Tue Sep 21
Re: Soucek
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Ron Greensward 12:38 Tue Sep 21
FYI, last season Soucek scored 4 goals without Dawson in the team, 6 with, so his goal tally went up, not down. Also, it's not like most of his goals came from headers from corners anyway, so it's neither true, nor relevant.
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Ron Greensward
12:38 Tue Sep 21
Re: Soucek
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Additionally to all this when Dawson came into the team they were both attacking the same way at corners etc so his goal tally went down as a result. Hence his figures don't look as good as they were.
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Darby_
12:29 Tue Sep 21
Re: Soucek
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He'll probably be rested for Kral at some stage as others have said. But it'll be interesting to see if we ever play three in the middle with Kral sitting back and Rice and Soucek bombing forward.
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Full Claret Jacket
12:11 Tue Sep 21
Re: Soucek
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He's the type of player who always does a lot of work which goes unnoticed. I think he probably has a bit of fatigue but the guy is a marathon runner. Incredible athlete. He can keep going for 95 mins. His intelligence at making runs in the box and in shutting down space is key to protecting the defence.Should have had a pen against Man U. He is also a leader in there.
There is no doubt Rice is being given a bit more licence to go forward and perhaps this means Soucek is being asked to sit a bit more.
He is still a threat though and I'm sure he will chip in with a few goals.
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Sir Alf
12:08 Tue Sep 21
Re: Soucek
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We are all guilty of over simplifying things ( well I tend to overcomplicate things ;-) ) but what I mean is there are likely to be more than one thing that have led to Soucek being less effective.
Yes there does seem to be a change of role but he has also had no rest in 2 seasons and lots of travelling ( a big reason for leggy performances), there is also the psychological strength needed to keep pushing game after game. Then, of course, the much under estimated "second season syndrome". Last season was his first full season and teams start learning about a player's strengths and their tactics change accordingly. I notice now that Antonio, Soucek, Oggy and Dawson are covered in arms and pulled or blocked at every set piece. Refs allow it to happen so every team is doing it. Much more than they were. So its a few things at play IMO. Some rest is needed though more than anything.
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stepney hammer
12:02 Tue Sep 21
Re: Soucek
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Darby_ 11:59 Tue Sep 21
Exactly this. It would have been difficult to compete with the top 4 at the time still, but for instance if they had brought in Lukaku for Moyes (or any other half decent centre forward) as they did for Martinez a couple of seasons later, maybe they would have progressed.
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Darby_
11:59 Tue Sep 21
Re: Soucek
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"It’s not nothing and it would be definite progress for us, but he never managed to push on."
Surely lack of financial resources is a better explanation for why Everton weren't beating Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea of the title?
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Vexed
12:10 Tue Sep 21
Re: Soucek
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daveyg 11:25 Mon Sep 20
Goals and assists are unlikely to ever be in Rice's locker. He just aint that type of player. I wish he'd concentrate on being a defensive midfielder he's just becoming great at that, hopefully Moyes will steer him back to what his job is.
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tnb
11:55 Mon Sep 20
Re: Soucek
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Soucek isn’t a defensive midfielder in the traditional sense, he’s a midfielder who starts deep and makes a nuisance of himself before breaking forward late. And he’s bloody good at it. Rice is developing into a similar player, adding that run forwards and linking up with more advanced players to his game. At their best the pair of them have a great understanding whereby one of them will sit and the other pushes on, then vice versa. However if you ask them, and particularly Soucek, to sit deep all the time then what is lacking will be exposed - and even more so because losing the ball just outside the opposition penalty area is much less hazardous than losing it inside your own half.
Recently that’s what Soucek has been asked to do and I’m not prepared to blame him for the consequences. It’s not restricted to games against the ‘big’ sides but it is much more common then. Man Utd most recently, Liverpool and Man City previously come to mind too. The inescapable conclusion is that Moyes worries so much about what the other side can do that at best he nullifies what we can do well and at worst he exposes our own weaknesses.
Don’t get me wrong, Moyes has worked wonders given the mess he has inherited (twice) and proved me wrong in the process. We certainly shouldn’t be ungrateful. But he does have a level, as most managers do. He got Everton into Europe a few times too and indeed they finished in the top six four times. It’s not nothing and it would be definite progress for us, but he never managed to push on. And this inherent caution is far and away the biggest reason for that. And whatever you say about diva players and banning chips, it’s not unrelated to why he could never cut it at Man Utd, much like Hodgson at Liverpool.
On the whole, if he carries on as he has then Moyes will go down as one of our best managers of the recent era. But similarly if we really want to progress then there will come a time when we have to move on.
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Sniper
11:27 Mon Sep 20
Re: Soucek
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Him and rice must be shattered, but it must also be tough when your regular ‘out’ ball is missing because your big tough forward can’t play
Hope he’s rested for the cup game. Him and rice could with one less game
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daveyg
11:25 Mon Sep 20
Re: Soucek
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Vexed you complete an utter moron, Soucek would never of scored a goal as classy and sublime as Rice's against Zagreb in a million years.
They can both score and Rice will be getting 8-10 goals a season as well soon.
Soucek needs a break but he's not getting on the end of those corners or free kicks that he was. He is class and that is permanent
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Crassus
10:50 Mon Sep 20
Re: Soucek
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Agree with Vexed and have been rumbling on about the ineffective set plays since the start of the season
There was a time when a corner was the cause of great anticipation, these days I'm scanning who is covering the inevitable break away
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Lily Hammer
9:02 Mon Sep 20
Re: Soucek
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Soucek and Rice better be rested Wednesday. There’s a long way to go this season and we simply have to use the little squad we have. Kral and Noble in the middle vs Man U. I reckon Noble will play a blinder.
Normally I want us to go for the league cup, but circumstances are exceptional.
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Vexed
8:44 Mon Sep 20
Re: Soucek
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Its because Rice thinks he should be getting forward more because it might help get him a move to Chelsea. Soucek needs to be getting in the box more not Rice. Probably should take pens as well, but that cunt Moyes like to bring players on completely cold to take them instead.
We look pretty ineffective from set pieces at the moment too, either we've taken our eye of them or teams have wised up.
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the exile
8:40 Mon Sep 20
Re: Soucek
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I'm hoping Soucek and Rice both get a rest from the midweek game. They both need it.
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Sir Alf
8:29 Mon Sep 20
Re: Soucek
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I agree he looks like a player that has not had a rest in 2 seasons. The Euros, playing for Czech etc.
That said, the game in midweek against the Croats was his best by a long stretch IMHO.
But playing a summer tournament has seen many a player suffer the next season. Our own Alvin Martin had a poor 86/87 season after involvement at the WC and eventually got injured in what became a relegation season IIRC?
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ironskej
11:28 Mon Sep 20
Re: Soucek
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It's probably because Rice is getting forward a lot more, leaving it more open in the DM area
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